The main problem in soya is the isoflavone genistein. Way back in 1998 Hsieh et al discovered that in vitrio and in vivo genistein "enhanced the proliferation of oestrogen-dependent human breast cancer cells." Some people advocated that genistein had anti cancer properties when used as a preventative - but it was discovered that women with ER+ breast cancer taking supplements which include genisten can adversely affect the efficacy of Tamoxifen and encourage cancer cell growth. Because some women experience menopausal symptoms on Tamoxifen they were taking genistein rich supplements to counteract it. It worked wonders on the menopausal symptoms because of its oestrogenic properties but sadly was undoing all the good work of the Tamoxifen. Doctors who won't take a stand against soya in nutrition will still probably tell you to keep away from supplements because of known contra-indication ...eventhough all roads lead back to soya!
I'm so fed up with one minute reading about what is good for you then the next minute reading that it isn't! I'm just in the middle of reading Jane Plants book and was thinking how good and logical it is but now I wonder? I know I'm going to die eventually,as I've got secondaries,so now I'm thinking,sod it,enjoy the time I've got left and eat what you like! Confused!! Alli x
The problem with books like JP's (in my opinion) is that they endeavour to over-simplify an issue which is phenomenally complex. Asian people don't get bc. Asian people eat lots of soya and no dairy. Ergo to avoid breast cancer avoid dairy and eat soya. Hmmm. I think JP makes valid points over dairy but is wrong about soya and the importance of stress hormones.
There are no hard and fast answers ... YET! But I think the time is coming soon when a connection between certain foodstuffs and certain cancers will be irrefutably proven - as with tobacco and lung cancer. Fags are not the only cause of lung cancer - but they certainly increase the likelihood of developing it. All over the world millions of precious research dollars are being spent investigating the relationship between food and cancer. The white coats(and pharmaceutical giants) know there are secrets to be unlocked. Let's hope they are quick about it!
Just a couple of points i wanted to make- Jane Plant is a geologist, not a medical doctor, so I would say proceed with caution when reading her stuff. I have been a vegetarian for 25 years and previously, soya was my main source of protein. I was diagnosed 2 years ago with DCIS and 2 grade 2 tumours that were very strongly oestrogen and progesterone positive. Be careful about accepting that soya is protective- it certainly was n't in my case and there are others with a similar experience to mine. I don't belive that soya caused my cancer but it did nothing to prevent it either.
Thanks for this thread and for the links we can go to for further info, even though it's conflicting.
The little I've read so far was concerning the amount of oestrogen and growth hormones in cow's milk, as well as oestrogen-like chemicals in plastic food wrappings, which gave me cause for alarm. ( not to mention the oestrogens in our drinking water! ).These may turn out to be the source of our problem.
Maybe if we consume soya in small amounts,eating it in the form of soya beans and tofu,rather than as milk we would be ok? I'm looking into this and hope to find a healthy diet to eat without worrying too much.We probably just need to eat as little processed food as possible,and eat organically grown if feasible. Not always easy.But I'm going to try.
I've read somewhere else on this forum that the amount of soya in a supplement is so small it's not worth worrying about.Can't remember which thread it was on, sorry.
It's so hard,isn't, we are trying to keep our cancer at bay but don't have the answers we need! I wish the government would wake up to this epidemic of bc,don't you? Best wishes to everyone on here, Ann
Something to consider re hormones in cows milk and meats is to look deeply into where the research was done. In Brazil they are allowed and do use growth hormones (where a lot of meat for ready meals is imported from apparently, not sure how true that is though), and in the US too.
The UK apparently banned the use of growth hormones in meat years ago. I was informed this by an organic meat farmer, and this is not just organic meats either.
So I do have to wonder about the dairy issue as to a certain extent the hormones present in the milk and meat must be down to what an animal is fed on. Of course there may be hormones naturally in the milk itself, something I will have to look into.
The difference between cow's milk now and 100 years ago is that they are quite often milked during pregnancy. Prior to intensive factory farming this stuff never happened. The milk can be full of naturally occuring growth hormone.
A little story - when I was a student a friend of mine was given 10 frozen chickens by the owner of a restaurant she worked at. We were very hard up and so all my friend ate was chicken morning noon and night. One night she began to feel extremely unwell and her face and limbs began to swell. She was admitted to hospital and it transpired she had incredibly high levels of oestrogen in her system. They traced it to the chickens which were routinely given oestrogen to plump them up.
I've heard of that, scary isn't it. Fortunately I've been an organic or at least local free range for as long as I can remember. Mum bought me up loathing the idea of battery farms, growing up next to a proper traditional farms where things roam around helped. We're going to keep our own laying hens eventually but right now we're dead lucky that there's organic eggs produced less than 1 mile from here, ad we can get a dozen for £1 (they're slightly too small for general sale).
It's a full time job having to check everything isn't it. Our answer was to buy a new freezer last night and make our own ready meals instead, it's the only way I think. I was never a fan of ready meals unless I made them anyway (something in them tastes like rancid powder to me, maybe that's the soya! )
All very confusing! I am on Arimidex and before that Tamoxifen ~ I have had PMT type symptoms since changing my medication and was advised by my oncologist 3 weeks ago to try soy products ~ I questioned him on this and he said it was OK as it mimicked the hormones, so I have been having soy milk on my cereal since ~ I am a vegetarian so giving up dairy completely isn't an option. So what do I do?! Rosemary
Rosie have you looked at rice milk, oat milk or almond milk (I love marzipan so will be trying that) but I assume you say giving up dairy isn't an option because of calcium etc, but you can just as much calcium from nuts, dark greeny leaf vegs etc. Maybe see a dietician/nutritionalist.
I personally decided that I will not be giving up dairy but I will be very picky about it so it has to be organic, but then I've worked on that principal for ages anyway and living rurally it's not hard to source good local fresh dairy. But each of us must make our own minds up until there some hard concrete proof (if that ever happens, too many environmental factors IMO).
I think my oncologist advised me to try soy milk because it mimics female hormones and my side effects [PMTish] may respond to it. I have thought of rice milk but almond sounds lovely! maybe I will give it a go and see if my symptoms come back [ head spinning ~ crying etc!] if they don't then I will try an alternative on my cereal. I too eat organic as much as I can and I do eat nuts etc. Its just this thing about soy ~ so conflicting, I do trust my oncologist but there is always this doubt in the back of your mind. I do eat the odd soy burger/sausage and have always thought that for it to have an adverse effect I would have to eat large amounts ~ now I just don't know....... : ( Rosemary
Is your cancer hormone receptive Rosemary? If it is ER+ then I wouldn't touch soy for the very reason that it has oestrogenic properties.
I have been veggy for thirty years and have flirted with veganism on and off over the years - I am now 100% vegan. I never ate much dairy anyway so it is no hardship. Watercress can have between 4 - 10 times more calcium ounce for ounce than milk. All brassicas are very good and of course nuts. And oranges are also a good source of calcium. The dairy industry and the soya industry are very powerful with great marketing machines. For those of us brought up on the idea of milk = health it is hard to let it go. And the soya business has done a great job of marketing itself as the panacea of all ills. Truth is that huge numbers of people have soya allergies and cheap soy products are in everything from chocolate to tinned soup. You don't need to eat a specific tofu or soya product in order to ingest a lot of the stuff each day - if you are not careful.
I agree Vertangie - making up your own ready meals is the best way to go I think - at least you know what is in them. I have tons of dal tucked away in the freezer - very easy to make in huge batches and is an excellent protein boost. You can have it with rice or a jacket spud or some chunks of bread. I couldn't live without it. I'm getting a bit Delia ... better be off!
That is brill news re watercress. I knew it was good for general health and some believe it's one of those great for cancer sufferers foods.
Here's something not a lot of people know. You can plant watercress seeds in grow bag or a bucket filled with soil and so long as you water well you get a great crop that you can use whenever you want that hasn't been washed in bl**dy chlorine and bagged and labelled as ready to eat.
70p of seeds and a crop all summer. Mines doing bumper and this sun/rain trip the whole of the UK is on suits it down to the ground.
It's the only raw veg I'm eating while on chemo really.
That is quite uncanny because my uncle sent some watercress seed the other day because we couldn't get them at our local garden centres. I have to wait for this stupid arm to heal up a bit before I can get out in the garden though. Have you ever tried watercress soup? Basically it is just potato and veggy stock and watercress all mushed up with plenty of pepper. Real comfort food. I'm dreading the nausea side of chemo - I had terrible morning sickness when pregnant. How are you coping?
I LOVE watercress soup. I make mine with chicken stock which turns out is one of those foods that can give you a boost and I believe watercress does too so superfood. I've had no problems with nausea yet and I'm half way through. The ondamet suits me very well it seems. the steroids makes me *need* fried chicken so I deem them evil.
Of course you being vegan don't use chicken stock I expect.
I put myself on a brazil nut a day since diagnosis so I don't get colds and that's worked despite the whole village having colds back in feb and me still being in shock. Love the things too.
The watercress is all planted up - it hasn't stopped raining for 2 days so it should flourish at this rate! The onc has given me lorazepam to take during treatment. He told me it was to sedate me ("because women like you don't respond well to treatment because you are running round after kids so this will knock you out.") But the BCN said it really helps with the nausea. Either way it sounds wonderful!
In a moment of madness this morning I shoved some broccoli through the juicer. It tasted like my lawnmower. I am fairly hopeless at coming up with good combo juices. Even my carrot and apple tastes like the inside of the guinea pig's hutch.
Hi all, I have had an interest in the dairy/soya debate, I have not drunk normal milk for years ,mostly because I find it hard to digest and it upsets my stomach, although i did eat the odd normal yogurt and icecream and chocolate, I decided to eat soya milk so have that for at least 3-4 years and then I was diagnosed last July. I have read alot on the subject and saw Jane Plant at a seminar at Guys hospital in London and it all sounds very interesting, we spoke to research writer about the soya conection to er+ cancers and she said better to have a little amount from soy than loads of hormones from cows milk, but I now drink oat milk with my cereal and the odd soya yogurt.( still have normal ice cream and chocolate)
As others have said I think its up to the individual to decide whats right for them.
Vegetarian and vegan foundation website is informative, lots about milk in research called White Lies. www.vegetarian.org.uk if you click on scientific reports, then on White Lies you can scroll down and read research about different health problems including breast cancer that are related to milk. 400 million pus cells in a litre of milk also put me off!!!!!
I am juicing both fruit and veg and did all through my chemo I had acupunture to prevent nausea and sickness and I did not get any, difficult to guage cos I dont know how I would of been without it. I am having rads at moment.
Good luck with all your treatments, Id be interested to know what you think of articles. Take care Dawn x